Having just gone through the KK City Tourism Treasure Hunt 2009 last Sunday, I will be flying over to KL this weekend to participate in the Hunters Challenge (01 March 2009). It’s the debut outing of Hunters “R” Us (HRU)—as a team—as a CoC for an open hunt.
When the Hunters Challenge was first publicized some weeks ago, I must say that I was not in favour of joining it for several reasons. Firstly, I somehow had—and I still have—the impression that there will be many unfair tricks in the questions. I have seen some of the clues produced by some members of HRU, notably in the online challenges in their blog. They had an interesting inclination to introduce new twists into their questions, but in my opinion, a number of those “new tricks” were not very fair to the solvers. I myself am a tricky little devil when it comes to tricks; and I frequently find it very hard to suppress my inclinations to introduce new twists into hunt questions too. However, whenever I set hunt questions, I always ask myself if I have provided for sufficient opportunities for the hunters to solve them—whether they’re humanly solvable. That said, I guess I’m not the best person to judge the fairness of my own questions, as I might be blind or bias when it comes to my own questions.
Secondly, the Hunters Challenge is a joint-effort of 4 great minds in the sports. I somehow have the impression that they will be all out to outdo each other by creating something outrageously impossible. On the other hand, it is also possible that they will be able to check each other’s products to ensure that they’re sound. So in that case the hunters may find quality questions in the Hunters Challenge. I personally think this latter scenario will be the likelier one, and I am therefore keen to try them out.
Thirdly, the Hunters Challenge clashes with a new-found passion of mine. The KK City Run 2009 will be held on the same day. I ran the KK City Run for the first time last year, and was planning to improve on my time this year. So I was seriously thinking of foregoing the Hunters Challenge. But I opted for the Hunters Challenge in the end because it’s the first time it’s being organised. If for any reason it’s not successful this time, it might not be organised again next year. I suppose I’ll always have more KK City Runs in the future.
So that’s settled then—come this Sunday, I will be there at the start station of the Hunters Challenge!
Notwithstanding the above, however, someone sought my opinion on the handicap system being introduced in the Hunters Challenge, i.e. the amount of time allocated to the hunters. HRU has come up with their own list of hunting greats. They’re separating the hunters based on those who’ve won selected hunts which they considered aptly categorized as the grandslams. The rest are put into the open category. The grandslammers are allocated 4.5 hours, and non-grandslammers 5.5 hours. Which means a handicap of 60 minutes in favour of the non-grandslammers.
People who know me well, will know that I am against handicaps in any form. My principle for success in any competition—and in life in general—is to fight against the best to be the best. If we’re required to run the marathon with only one leg, then let’s all run with one leg and see who will reach the finish line first.
Now a popular argument by the new hunters is that if they had to fight against the so-called master hunters without any handicaps, they have no chance to win. In my opinion, this argument can’t hold water, as we have more than enough evidence to support the fact that many new teams have been able to beat the masters without any handicaps whatsoever. They may not win on their first outing. No—perhaps they will take several outings to overwhelm the masters. It is difficult but not impossible.
So my vote is against the time handicap; or any kind of handicap at all. If I have to fight against the grandmasters with equal time allocation, then I guess that’s what I will do. In all likelihood I will lose. I will probably fall flat on my face, but I will get up again and fight another day. Either that or I will meekly throw in the towel, but I will never plead for handicaps—never!
I am not yet a grandslammer, and I don’t think I will be one for a very long time. I am well aware that I am not as good as those grandmasters, but I despise the fact that I’m given handicaps as if I am perceived to be a likely loser even before the flag-off. Give me equal treatment; 4.5 hours or 5.5 hours, I don’t care. Everyone gets the same thing, and when and if I eventually win the hunt, then I can proudly claim that I did it without any handicap!
Update:
The other side of the story...
I wish to emphasise that the above is my personal opinion. And I accept that it may not be a popular view, especially among the non-granslammers. The CoC sets the rules and we play the game within the boundaries of those rules. That has always been how things are. Not that the grandslammers will get into time trouble, I'm sure. Handicap or no handicap, I will be there and looking forward to ride against the grandmasters.
I wish to mention here—I hope VK won't mind this—that one of their aims is to get ZERO KUTUK from me on their questions (smile). So as far as the quality of the questions is concerned, I'm sure that it's gonna be your money's worth!
To the new teams, may I suggest that you don't miss the opportunity to join this hunt— you won't get many of this kind of hunts.
To the grandslammers, I am confident that you will all be there to prove, as usual, that handicaps will not affect you people anyway. But we will make you run for your money though (smile).
N.B. This is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of my team mates for this hunt.
When the Hunters Challenge was first publicized some weeks ago, I must say that I was not in favour of joining it for several reasons. Firstly, I somehow had—and I still have—the impression that there will be many unfair tricks in the questions. I have seen some of the clues produced by some members of HRU, notably in the online challenges in their blog. They had an interesting inclination to introduce new twists into their questions, but in my opinion, a number of those “new tricks” were not very fair to the solvers. I myself am a tricky little devil when it comes to tricks; and I frequently find it very hard to suppress my inclinations to introduce new twists into hunt questions too. However, whenever I set hunt questions, I always ask myself if I have provided for sufficient opportunities for the hunters to solve them—whether they’re humanly solvable. That said, I guess I’m not the best person to judge the fairness of my own questions, as I might be blind or bias when it comes to my own questions.
Secondly, the Hunters Challenge is a joint-effort of 4 great minds in the sports. I somehow have the impression that they will be all out to outdo each other by creating something outrageously impossible. On the other hand, it is also possible that they will be able to check each other’s products to ensure that they’re sound. So in that case the hunters may find quality questions in the Hunters Challenge. I personally think this latter scenario will be the likelier one, and I am therefore keen to try them out.
Thirdly, the Hunters Challenge clashes with a new-found passion of mine. The KK City Run 2009 will be held on the same day. I ran the KK City Run for the first time last year, and was planning to improve on my time this year. So I was seriously thinking of foregoing the Hunters Challenge. But I opted for the Hunters Challenge in the end because it’s the first time it’s being organised. If for any reason it’s not successful this time, it might not be organised again next year. I suppose I’ll always have more KK City Runs in the future.
So that’s settled then—come this Sunday, I will be there at the start station of the Hunters Challenge!
Notwithstanding the above, however, someone sought my opinion on the handicap system being introduced in the Hunters Challenge, i.e. the amount of time allocated to the hunters. HRU has come up with their own list of hunting greats. They’re separating the hunters based on those who’ve won selected hunts which they considered aptly categorized as the grandslams. The rest are put into the open category. The grandslammers are allocated 4.5 hours, and non-grandslammers 5.5 hours. Which means a handicap of 60 minutes in favour of the non-grandslammers.
People who know me well, will know that I am against handicaps in any form. My principle for success in any competition—and in life in general—is to fight against the best to be the best. If we’re required to run the marathon with only one leg, then let’s all run with one leg and see who will reach the finish line first.
Now a popular argument by the new hunters is that if they had to fight against the so-called master hunters without any handicaps, they have no chance to win. In my opinion, this argument can’t hold water, as we have more than enough evidence to support the fact that many new teams have been able to beat the masters without any handicaps whatsoever. They may not win on their first outing. No—perhaps they will take several outings to overwhelm the masters. It is difficult but not impossible.
So my vote is against the time handicap; or any kind of handicap at all. If I have to fight against the grandmasters with equal time allocation, then I guess that’s what I will do. In all likelihood I will lose. I will probably fall flat on my face, but I will get up again and fight another day. Either that or I will meekly throw in the towel, but I will never plead for handicaps—never!
I am not yet a grandslammer, and I don’t think I will be one for a very long time. I am well aware that I am not as good as those grandmasters, but I despise the fact that I’m given handicaps as if I am perceived to be a likely loser even before the flag-off. Give me equal treatment; 4.5 hours or 5.5 hours, I don’t care. Everyone gets the same thing, and when and if I eventually win the hunt, then I can proudly claim that I did it without any handicap!
Update:
The other side of the story...
I wish to emphasise that the above is my personal opinion. And I accept that it may not be a popular view, especially among the non-granslammers. The CoC sets the rules and we play the game within the boundaries of those rules. That has always been how things are. Not that the grandslammers will get into time trouble, I'm sure. Handicap or no handicap, I will be there and looking forward to ride against the grandmasters.
I wish to mention here—I hope VK won't mind this—that one of their aims is to get ZERO KUTUK from me on their questions (smile). So as far as the quality of the questions is concerned, I'm sure that it's gonna be your money's worth!
To the new teams, may I suggest that you don't miss the opportunity to join this hunt— you won't get many of this kind of hunts.
To the grandslammers, I am confident that you will all be there to prove, as usual, that handicaps will not affect you people anyway. But we will make you run for your money though (smile).
N.B. This is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of my team mates for this hunt.
15 comments:
Say no to handicapping!!!! Are we trying to breed NEP mentality into treasure hunting also? Once one had tasted the opium...there goes lah!! Hope common sense prevails dear COCs and organisers.
Cheers!
Kok Seng
I'm a bit confused with what's going on right now. We all know that famous line: Sometimes the best policy is to keep one's mouth shut.
If ever there is any truth in that famous line, then now must be it!
I was asked for my honest opinion on the issue of handicaps in treasure hunts. And I have also spoken out on this same issue in the past.
In the present case, we're talking about the time handicap. I don't think that it's very much different from any other kinds of handicaps adopted in other hunts. We've had games to make it less predictable for the masters; in fact we've many, many games!
Take last Sunday's KK City Tourism Treasure Hunt for example. The hunt was without any tulips. The points from the questions and treasures were less than the tasks and games. Among the tasks were to speak in the local language, Kadazan. Then going to places around the city. Questions on local festivals etc. Of course in that case everyone was subject to the same criterias, but we all knew that they're designed to make life tougher for the outsiders, didn't we? Yet at the end of the hunt, the grandmasters from the West still prevailed. The same story for last year, and many years before that.
This thing about handicaps is not new and not unique to the Hunters Challenge only. And if I were asked about those other hunts, I would have given the same opinion too - that I am against handicaps, period.
The reality is that although the regular hunters are always there to support the organisers of treasure hunts, their number is just not big enough to keep the sport viable. One way or another, we need to attract the crowd. And unfortunately the handicaps are useful sweeteners for this purpose.
However, at the end of most hunts the regular hunters almost always will win anyway. Not exactly the most pleasant arrangements for the regulars, but apparently the most winning formula to keep the fire going. For without the crowd, the sports will just fade into nothingness, and all we're left with are something like the Bull Hunt.
Besides, if we are unable to attract new hunters into this game, there is no scope to develop it.
I may not agree with the handicaps, but I have to reluctantly admit that I still want the sport to continue and develop. And if takes the handicaps to make it work, then what choice do I have? If I chose to boycott the hunt, that, too, will only kill the sport in the long run.
So would I join the hunt? Of course I would, albeit depending on the quality of the questions. Because the truth of the matter is that the grandmasters almost always will prevail in answering the questions in the end, handicaps or no handicaps!
So would I support HRU's hunt? Sure, anytime of the day! Maybe I won't be so supportive to anything akin to the Love Hunt, but that's a different story!
And if I were a grandslammer, will I be happy with the handicaps against me? No, of course I won't be happy! But I sure as hell will still join it to prove that I will still prevail. I love the challenge, you see.
The idea of handicap is to level the playing field, which I can understand the need for it. The question is how much handicap? Too much handicap and we are back to an uneven playing field, this time in favour of the non grand slammers.
1 hour in my opinion is way to much. And as if that is not enough, if the regulars still some how come in on top, the tie breaker is again a disadvantage to the regulars! It's a double blow! Look at all the recent results, are the standard between winning teams and say position 10th that much?
I'm ok with some handicaps but this is the extreme end of it.
btw, what are you so confused about?
On another related matter.
You agreed that the regulars make the base of any open hunt. They are always there to support the CoC. In that way you can say the regulars are the CoC's best customers. Yet CoC goes out of the way to penalise the regulars, their best customers?
You have a set of customers in your own business. Majority are good and a few are bad. Most business would treat the good customers slightly better.You are a very just person , so it's possible that you treat them all the same. But do you treat you good customers less than your bad ones?
The idea of growing the sports by giving handicap or what ever other ways is on the flawed assumption that there is growth potential in the first place.
The grim reality is we are pretty much reaching to the maximum opportunity in growing this sports. We have to face the fact that the "intelligent" nature of this sport is such that we don't have a large pool of interested people in the first place. It's like trying to promote the growth of chess, cricket or lawn bowl. At the very best, we will pick up 10 new serious teams for every calender year.
The sooner we realise that this is it for treasure hunt in term of growth the better it is for everyone.
delurk,
I was confused because this handicap issue isn't a new thing in treasure hunt. But it seems that the reaction against it now is somewhat more pronounced. But now that I see your argument, I can appreciate the reaction.
Speaking strictly from the professional point of view, I would act in the best interest of my client. So it all depends on who's my client. If my client is the organiser, and he is seeking to bring in the crowd, than I will try my best to do just that; even if I have to unintentionally offend some regular hunters in the process.
Regarding the goal to develop the sports, I have to agree with you too. I think we have more or less reached the full potential. When that happens, it can lead to 2 things. Firstly, we will find too many hunts and the hunters spread too thin. And as the CoCs start to concentrate on the quantity we will see a steady decline in the quality of the hunts.
Secondly, some below-par CoCs will go out of business sooner or later, as hunters will have more choices. This is the simple principle of supply and demand.
However, I still think we need to attract new hunters if only to retain the current crowd. Because I have a feeling that while we're attracting new hunters, some existing ones will give up. So even if our scope of developing further is very limited, we still need to attract new hunters to maintain whatever number we have now. Otherwise it's gonna be a steady decline to a slow painful death.
This handicapped system just breeds more mediocre ppl and the mentality that if i am not good enough, i demand to be spoon fed. What is the world coming too?
I still recall when the days i started playing chess in my youth, there were no tournaments under age groups and such i had to compete in open tournaments against adults. The satisfaction it brought me when i could triumph against older participants was immense and i lose, tell myself that i need to improve. That was my mentality in my younger days. I didnt ask for any handicap nor demanded that the best had to be penalised.
Having said the above, i will still be at the hunt this sunday bearing any reaction from my other team mates to do otherwise.
Truly hope the COC of HRU will look into this handicap system with more scrutiny and care.
adrian,
I admire your attitude. And I'm so glad to know that you will be there on Sunday. I'm also confident that your team mates, the true champions that they are, will also be there to rise to the challenge!
I can agree that 60 minutes handicap is way too much. If we have only the masters at one end and the newbies on the other end, then that 60-minute handicap isn't that terrible. I've set questions where the newbies spent a good one hour standing staring at the answer but still failed to get it in the end.
But what we have now is quite different. Among the non-grandslammers there are very strong masters and I feel their level of hunting skill is much narrower than 60-minute gap against the grandslammers.
Maybe - I say, maybe - we can still adopt all those names found in the TOS list and subject all of them to that 4.5 hours and tie-breaker, while the rest can enjoy the handicap of 5.5 hours. But of course we need to include the winners of last year's Sun Hunt champions into that list too (I'm assuming that they'll be there this Sunday). It still won't be the best solution, of course, because some very strong hunters are still not on that list. But perhaps it's much better than what we have now. This is just a suggestion to HRU, but I will respect whatever decision they arrive at in the end; I will be there.
it's important to note that the comments and discussions here are strictly about treasure hunts, nothing personal.
yo adrian, that's right we will be there. (er er..where are we starting?) now that the money is on teams like "ckoh & team", we will give them a run for their money!
You superman right?
delurk,
The money on my team? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Maybe I should start thinking about pakat-ing with other teams... hehehe
Kena kutuk by so many even before the hunt has started! One hour penalty based on a list which doesn't include so many masters really doesn't make any sense at all. HRU, pls don't open a new can of worms.
Yo Alex,
The way I see it, you will finish well within the time that we have alloted for you guys. The hunt was originally meant for 4 hours, now you are getting extra 30 mins. So it's really not an hour penalty at all. I am sure you have done hunts that was only 3 hours long and yet surfaced unfazed, by comparison, I think we have been very generous in time.
See you on Sunday and prove me wrong :)
Listen up, folks, I'm happy to see this lively debate where some of the big names have come in to share their views. And I'm also happy that we're keeping it civil. I think we need this kind of debates or discussions more often, but let's continue to keep it civil please.
I must admit that the timing of this post is rather odd. For if we're trying to seek changes to the rules, it is too late now to do that. Hunters have signed up based on those rules and it's not quite appropriate to make changes at the eleventh hour. The purpose of this discussion is therefore strictly just that - for the sake of discussion, with the hope that something different might be done for future hunts.
My personal view is that HRU, being one of those elite teams, should be able to understand the reactions of their peers against the present handicap issue, as they themselves have been subject to similar handicaps in other hunts that they've joined. I'm sure that much thoughts have been put into this particular handicap before they finalised the rules.
In one of my hunts which HRU joined, I was able to observe them during the hunt. It didn't seem that they were rushing, but they reached the end station a good one hour before the time control. Yet the rest of the teams were struggling, and many had to drop several tail-end questions to avoid time penalty in spite of the extra 1 hour hunting time. As I had expected, HRU won that hunt convincingly. In retrospect, had I introduced a similar time handicap then, HRU wouldn't have been affected in the least!
Could it be possible that we will see a similar situation this Sunday? The grandslammers and other masters all can finish well before the 4.5 hours time control, and the 60-minute handicap becomes significant only on paper.
The HRU, being frequently put in the unenviably position at the lousy end of the handicap system in treasure hunts, would know - should know - how to balance things up. And the physchology is that there must be a twist in this particular handicap they're introducing in the Hunters Challenge which would render the seemingly unfair time handicap insignificant!
As unfair as it seems, if I were one of those grandslammers, I would have faith in this grandmaster team which has put on the hat of the CoC. Besides, they're contributing their precious time and efforts with no scope of monetary gains. And all eyes are on them as a team - an elite team - there's no need, really, for them to do all this.
So I would support the Hunters Challenge. I still don't like the handicaps - any kind of handicaps. But I'm dying to find out how these handicaps are insignificant.
Take a step back please and think about all the other people that make up the hunting fraternity.
Spare a thought for those hunters that join hunts just to have a good time-out. Most average hunters that I have been in contact with has given me the feedback that they join hunts purely to have a good time. They do not join hunts to challenge for the top prizes. In fact they find a great deal of satisfaction in winning any prize, even the lesser ones. But what they are really appreciative of is, is to be given ample time to work on each question. There is nothing but joy in their faces to show when they have successfully derived the answer.
Spare a thought too for the Masters of yesteryears who no longer keep up with the game, but would like to support this event (which has a different cause).
We're all for making improvements for future editions of this Challenge. Hold our arm please, not twist it. Share with us your ideas please, not sarcastic remarks.
Hope to see you all there on Sunday. Cheers.
Well, folks, this is it! In a few hours' time I'll be taking a flight across the South China Sea to KL. As usual, it's gonna be several hours before I arrive at my hotel room at around 5pm. But that's if we don't have delays.
Tomorrow will be the much anticipated Hunters Challenge, and the debutant CoC, Hunters "R" Us (as a team).
I'll be riding with The Jackals for the second time. I rode with them in the Sun Hunt Masters last year, and we didn't perform that well. So this might be a good chance to redeem ourselves.
I foresee a lot to report (and debate?) when I come back. But it'll be past midnight when I arrive tomorrow, so the soonest you'll hear from me would be Monday. Stay tuned!
Post a Comment